FROM : GURINDER
Sat Sri Akal G
I have been following this discussion with interest. Just makes me wonder
why eating meat is prohibited in Rehat Maryaada. There must be a good
reason. And also why there are not many references of meat distributions in
Guru ka langar, during their times (except that one time, when Sikhs are
said to have consumed horses).
I have heard that meat excites a person's mind and makes it a bit harder
to concentrate during meditations. And have been told by my Muslim friends
that some of the old Muslim saints/imaams/'muslims close to God' turn
vegetarian for a similar reason.
Having said all that, there must be good reasons for eating meat as its
allowed in Christianity/Islam...... and there must be good reasons for not
eating meat (Hinduism, Sikhism(?), Jainism etc)
Totally, utterly confused.
Gurinder
REPLY FROM HARJIT:
Satnaam ji
with guru ji's kindness i was once confused by this topic as I got into
religion. But now have studied every angle of it. I will publish the
articles when i get time. However, in a nutshell the conclusion i come to
is that God and Religion are two separate things. Religion is mostly man
made and has objectives such as carrying on beliefs, traditions, controlling
people and organising the masses. People running religion do not have
God-love as their aim, but control and power, respect of society and so on
is the most important to them. Whilst they carry on the traditions and
beliefs and fight for them they gain the respect of the masses, even though
those traditions and beliefs may actually have no relevance anymore.
Religion has tried to control every aspect of a persons life from birth ,
marriage and death, to what we wear , eat and how we live.
Its a control thing with religion to tell people what to do, to hug them if
they follow the rules of the religious tribe or to excommunicate them if they
dont follow the rules.
Has that got anything to do with God - no.
God is life itself and that is within your deepest core and you can tap into
that. Gurbani is the writings of the ones who broke out of religion and
found the Truth within. Guru Nana k dev ji said eat what doesn't cause your
body trouble. Its that simple. The most important thing is loving God
within , serving the saints and getting their blessings. The rest is just
people in the form of religion trying to control us, trying to put themselves
between us and God within. That is why we get confused because we listen to
them and dont listen to our heart - our Guru within , and dont get the
blessings of the saints - the true lovers of God.
In many primitive cultures it was believed that droughts and other problems
facing people were due to the gods being unhappy with the people. So the
people would try and make the Gods happy. One way was to sacrifice
something that was of value eg an animal. An animal like a cow or a goat
was very valuable for poor peasant people. Eating meat would only be at a
tie of great festivals or celebrations and meat would be a treat, a very
special food not often affordable or available to the common people. So
when they made a sacrifice of an animal they prayed all their bad luck went
on the animal, and by slaying it, they slayed their bad luck and pleased the
Gods. So now in Islam you still have sacrifices of goats and animals after
Eid. Thats the roots of animal sacrifices which religion is still promoting
in the name of God.
Also in those old days slitting the throat of the animal while its heart was
pumping was an easy way to drain it of its blood. Now that is a hard and
fast rule of Islam that all meat is to be prepared in that way then its
lawful - halal. Others its haram - unlawful. So again Islam carried on
peasant ritual of thousands of years ago in the name of God. But has
nothing to do with God. Then man made rules in Judaism and Islam now have
very tight rules and regulations about what is halal or kosher and what is
not. It is a big money making venture and way of controlling people in the
name of God. IT has nothing to do with God.
Whilst in India , Guru Nanak Dev ji wrote to the strict vegetarian Brahmin
priests that their own ancestors used to sacrifice rhinoceroses, yet they
turn their nose up to flesh thinking it is something bad. IT is not, flesh
is the body of the soul. flesh is part and parcel of God's creation and
shouldn't be seen as bad. Having arrogance and ignorance in the name of
religion is the only bad thing. There's also the tradition in India of being
vegetarian as that is the food available to most people historically. Same
in China they have very simple diets and meat forms a part of it once in a
while in small amounts -historically and for most people in the world it is
a luxury food.
Some cultures eat dogs and horses, yet in the UK those are peoples favourite
pets, but they are happy to eat chicken, cow, lamb and pig.
What people eat is down to what is available in their part of the world.
When humans were hunter-gatherers roaming the forests and living in caves
they spent most of their time like animals looking for food. They were too
busy trying to survive than to sit around being fussy due to beliefs. When
food became easy for us as society people started making belief systems
...this food is good, this is bad, ...all man made.
In Sikhism Guru Gobind Singh ji was in battle with the Turks and made a
system of army rules - the Rehat Maryaada. to wear the 5K army uniform. To
not disobey the 4Hs - Halal meat - dont eat it. Hookah - dont smoke the
Muslim pipe. Haram - dont have unlawful sex. Hajamat - dont shave like the
Muslims.
So you can see that where for the first hunter gather humans food was a
means of staying alive and they would eat whatever they could get, now food
has become associated with a Muslim religion i.e. halal. When they converted
people, the first test was to make them eat halal meat ..or die. Guru
Gobind Singh ji made the rule not to eat halal meat for that reason ..meaning
not to give up to the oppressor. Not to do anything they do, not to be
forcibly converted out of fear.
So add another 300 years to where we are now and the context of Rehat
Maryaada being a code of conduct for army discipline against Mughal
oppressors of them time has been lost. All that is left is the mish mash of
man made interference from the British rule and vegetarian Hindu religious
leaders "so called sants" who have added their own versions into what we
have as modern Sikhism.
So that explains to you why the Sikh religious leaders now have Rehat
Maryaada that says dont eat halal ..Muslim meat. But the masses being told
be the "sant" religious leaders to be vegetarian. That is why Sikhs are
confused, Islam is confused, Jews are confused and that is all thanks to man
made religion promoting out of date beliefs that have nothing to do with
God.
Eat what suits your body and allows you to do naam simran, seva of the true
saints and bhagti loving devotional worship of God within you.
dust of your feet
Harjit
I have been following this discussion with interest. Just makes me wonder
why eating meat is prohibited in Rehat Maryaada. There must be a good
reason. And also why there are not many references of meat distributions in
Guru ka langar, during their times (except that one time, when Sikhs are
said to have consumed horses).
I have heard that meat excites a person's mind and makes it a bit harder
to concentrate during meditations. And have been told by my Muslim friends
that some of the old Muslim saints/imaams/'muslims close to God' turn
vegetarian for a similar reason.
Having said all that, there must be good reasons for eating meat as its
allowed in Christianity/Islam...... and there must be good reasons for not
eating meat (Hinduism, Sikhism(?), Jainism etc)
Totally, utterly confused.
Gurinder
REPLY FROM HARJIT:
Satnaam ji
with guru ji's kindness i was once confused by this topic as I got into
religion. But now have studied every angle of it. I will publish the
articles when i get time. However, in a nutshell the conclusion i come to
is that God and Religion are two separate things. Religion is mostly man
made and has objectives such as carrying on beliefs, traditions, controlling
people and organising the masses. People running religion do not have
God-love as their aim, but control and power, respect of society and so on
is the most important to them. Whilst they carry on the traditions and
beliefs and fight for them they gain the respect of the masses, even though
those traditions and beliefs may actually have no relevance anymore.
Religion has tried to control every aspect of a persons life from birth ,
marriage and death, to what we wear , eat and how we live.
Its a control thing with religion to tell people what to do, to hug them if
they follow the rules of the religious tribe or to excommunicate them if they
dont follow the rules.
Has that got anything to do with God - no.
God is life itself and that is within your deepest core and you can tap into
that. Gurbani is the writings of the ones who broke out of religion and
found the Truth within. Guru Nana k dev ji said eat what doesn't cause your
body trouble. Its that simple. The most important thing is loving God
within , serving the saints and getting their blessings. The rest is just
people in the form of religion trying to control us, trying to put themselves
between us and God within. That is why we get confused because we listen to
them and dont listen to our heart - our Guru within , and dont get the
blessings of the saints - the true lovers of God.
In many primitive cultures it was believed that droughts and other problems
facing people were due to the gods being unhappy with the people. So the
people would try and make the Gods happy. One way was to sacrifice
something that was of value eg an animal. An animal like a cow or a goat
was very valuable for poor peasant people. Eating meat would only be at a
tie of great festivals or celebrations and meat would be a treat, a very
special food not often affordable or available to the common people. So
when they made a sacrifice of an animal they prayed all their bad luck went
on the animal, and by slaying it, they slayed their bad luck and pleased the
Gods. So now in Islam you still have sacrifices of goats and animals after
Eid. Thats the roots of animal sacrifices which religion is still promoting
in the name of God.
Also in those old days slitting the throat of the animal while its heart was
pumping was an easy way to drain it of its blood. Now that is a hard and
fast rule of Islam that all meat is to be prepared in that way then its
lawful - halal. Others its haram - unlawful. So again Islam carried on
peasant ritual of thousands of years ago in the name of God. But has
nothing to do with God. Then man made rules in Judaism and Islam now have
very tight rules and regulations about what is halal or kosher and what is
not. It is a big money making venture and way of controlling people in the
name of God. IT has nothing to do with God.
Whilst in India , Guru Nanak Dev ji wrote to the strict vegetarian Brahmin
priests that their own ancestors used to sacrifice rhinoceroses, yet they
turn their nose up to flesh thinking it is something bad. IT is not, flesh
is the body of the soul. flesh is part and parcel of God's creation and
shouldn't be seen as bad. Having arrogance and ignorance in the name of
religion is the only bad thing. There's also the tradition in India of being
vegetarian as that is the food available to most people historically. Same
in China they have very simple diets and meat forms a part of it once in a
while in small amounts -historically and for most people in the world it is
a luxury food.
Some cultures eat dogs and horses, yet in the UK those are peoples favourite
pets, but they are happy to eat chicken, cow, lamb and pig.
What people eat is down to what is available in their part of the world.
When humans were hunter-gatherers roaming the forests and living in caves
they spent most of their time like animals looking for food. They were too
busy trying to survive than to sit around being fussy due to beliefs. When
food became easy for us as society people started making belief systems
...this food is good, this is bad, ...all man made.
In Sikhism Guru Gobind Singh ji was in battle with the Turks and made a
system of army rules - the Rehat Maryaada. to wear the 5K army uniform. To
not disobey the 4Hs - Halal meat - dont eat it. Hookah - dont smoke the
Muslim pipe. Haram - dont have unlawful sex. Hajamat - dont shave like the
Muslims.
So you can see that where for the first hunter gather humans food was a
means of staying alive and they would eat whatever they could get, now food
has become associated with a Muslim religion i.e. halal. When they converted
people, the first test was to make them eat halal meat ..or die. Guru
Gobind Singh ji made the rule not to eat halal meat for that reason ..meaning
not to give up to the oppressor. Not to do anything they do, not to be
forcibly converted out of fear.
So add another 300 years to where we are now and the context of Rehat
Maryaada being a code of conduct for army discipline against Mughal
oppressors of them time has been lost. All that is left is the mish mash of
man made interference from the British rule and vegetarian Hindu religious
leaders "so called sants" who have added their own versions into what we
have as modern Sikhism.
So that explains to you why the Sikh religious leaders now have Rehat
Maryaada that says dont eat halal ..Muslim meat. But the masses being told
be the "sant" religious leaders to be vegetarian. That is why Sikhs are
confused, Islam is confused, Jews are confused and that is all thanks to man
made religion promoting out of date beliefs that have nothing to do with
God.
Eat what suits your body and allows you to do naam simran, seva of the true
saints and bhagti loving devotional worship of God within you.
dust of your feet
Harjit
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