---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:
Krishan Shiva Kaur <krishanshivakaur@khalsa.com> Date: 2009/9/9
Subject: Chat with Krishan Shiva Kaur
To:
satsatsat@gmail.com 11:24 Krishan: Satnaam dear Harjit
11:26 me: satnaam Krishan ji, how are you?
Krishan: satnaam brother it's good to connect with you on here. Do you ahve a moment free as would like to ask you about something
me: yeah sure, go ahead
11:28 Krishan: thanks. we have been trying these past 16 days to do 2.5 hours simran in the very early amrit vela. Just the past four days it seems we are hitting a wall of sleepyness and restlessness in the body when sitting. We have been going to sleep around 8.30 / 9pm then getting up around 11.30 /midnight.. having a cold shower.. and then sitting for 2.5 hours simran.
but just this mornign and a few days ago.. we were soooo tired
we tried getting up and walking around the room with simran and then sitting down again
11:29 then we ended up bending forward and putting our head to rest ont hethe floor for a fmoment.. but we fell asleep this mornign for maybe half an ahour and felt a bit like we'd missed partof the sadhana.. and felt a bit defeated or seomthign
usually after simran around 3 or 3.30 we go back to sleep for 4 hours
do you think this schedule is the most helpful one.. what works for you jee?
11:30 me: you have to do what works for you, lack of sleep just exhausted me, we just get up when HE wakes us up and try to feel love whilst doing simran, then lie back and do simran and drift into sleep/samadhi nowadays. That seems to be working quite well now.
11:31 And keep rpaying with HIS kindness that we get up earlier and and stay balanced.
11:32 like last night we went to sleep around 10pm and awoke around 4.15 by His grace - no alarm clock
then we wash out face and sit for simran and did about an hour of chanting and so on listenting to kirtan.
11:33 then around 5.25 we did a little ardas to do silent simran, lay back , relaxed our body and put on satnaam cd. and drifted into sleep and could hear satnaam all the way through.
This is working for us at the moment ji.
11:34 then we "woke up" at 7 am and kids got up around then as well, so it works out ok.
Krishan: so is it better to do silent simran or chanting with a cd? maybe that would help keep us more awake.
11:35 the other question is that you mentiened in your chat with Taranjeet jee that sometimes you do yoga as part of your simran practice ad just keep chanting.. we would like to do the 2.5 hours a day for at least 40 days as Dassan Das jee said.. so were wonderfing if that meant 2.5 hours silent simran... or if we can do simran chanting outloude.. and yoga with simran recitation inside.. and that would be considered par tof the 2.5 hours too?
11:40 me: Dassan Dass ji always wants us to do silent simran for 2.5 hrs without breaks and moving around etc.
Its very difficult to do this though as you know!!
So we can only pray to build up to this level.
11:41 And to build up to it last year we have been getting up at 5am doing an hour yoga, half hour relxation and visualisation, then some silent simran and then singing kirtan on vaja to make up the 2.5 hrs.
11:42 Earlier this year we tried to do what you are doing, get up at 12.30 and just sit for simran. For the first month we were exhausted and irrtiable and grumpy during the day due to lack of sleep and frustrations
11:43 Krishan: what we are finding is that our immune system seems down (but it was also down before we started doing this) and we are getting those mouth ulcers..
hmm.
11:44 me: immune system is down and gets worse with lack of sleep and broken sleep patterns, mouth ulcers I used to have to, but were due to lack of vitamin B.
11:45 So actually your simran routine is causing your more stress as it did with me.
So after the first month, we had the choice ..give up this crazy routine
as you are probably feeling too.
And as we had done many times before.
11:46 But then we decided , No this time we are not giving up no matter what happens.
Krishan: (this is what we tend to feel.. to not give up)
me: So we prayed to God-Guru ji "we are not able to do bhagti or simran ji, you are our Guru Father, please show us the way"
then we realised, we were trying too hard and expecting things to happen as rewards
11:47 so we prayed to God-Guru ji that HE is the MASTER and to keep us as the dog at HIS door.
Krishan: thanks jee...
we also think sometimes that if we try harder.. sometihng more will happen. it's this intense longing for love of god
11:48 we wanted to ask you about that too.
because we have noticed .. that sometimes simran seems more from head than heart.. that we seomtimes can't feel it from heartfelt flow..
which doesn't feel right..
11:49 so we would very much liek to get more intot he heartflow with simran.. do you have any advise for this jee?
me: Ardas is the most powerful weapon,
11:50 speak to God-Guru ji , Baba Ji - whoever you feel love for, and tell them your problems in your ardas before starting Simran, then surrender everything and accept everything that happens as good.
11:52 Krishan: thanks jee.. we are very grateful to talk to you today. we felt quite sad this morning with tears on and off since we woke up.. feeling that we want to be doing the right thing.. so that we can truly dissolve the layers of veils and thing that keep us from the divine light
me: Also we realised we are trying to hard to stay alert and wake.
11:53 But Namjeevan ji and Dassan Dass ji have said, to just sit or lie down confortably, do your ardas, start doing your silent simran and slip away.
Krishan: even if slipping away means falling back asleep?
funnily enough we have noticed
when that happens when we sit on the meditation cushion.. we might fall asleep
11:54 but then as soon as our mind comes back awake again it goes straight back into simran
me: yes, we also made that mistake thinking we are falling asleep and getting frustrated by that.
11:55 But Namjeevan ji and Dassan Dass ji have told us that its not sleep its samadhi.
And even if it is sleep sometimes, be OK with that, because HE knows we need to sleep and rest too. so just do ardas again and carry on doing silent simran in your heart (or third eye - but heart is more loving we feel)
11:56 So now we are doing some focusing by chanting out, then pruposely lie back, put on a satnaam satnaam track from the website, drift into what seems like sleep and go on our adventrues!!!
11:57 Because now we realise that we have to defeat our 5 thieves in that realm of being as well.
Krishan: lol
me: And that is also were we meet the astral forms of our sants and gurus and so on.
Krishan: last night
me: So actually we have been too hard on ourself/
Krishan: the opposite of that came into our dream after our simran
11:58 me: and this simran path is much easier now.
Krishan: one could say that being who embodies all the 5 theives is totality
came into our dream and a friend of our handed us a cross (like a christian cross)
then we wokeup tday with all these tears and confusions
but yes we feel you have a point about being too hard on ourselves
11:59 and that also we will try focussing on the heart centre during simran
12:00 thanks jee.. you are such a great help to us.. we really appreciate you.. it's such a slippery path sometime and to have this great sangat for support when times are more challenging is a great balm!
we think we need more trust in 'HIM'
12:01 that maybe we are trying too much with our own efforts to 'make something happen'.
12:02 me: yes, give up our efforts, just do ardas before going to sleep, ardas from the heart, and if you hear your own ardas and feel its sincere, then God who is sitting inside you has also heard that Ardas.
12:03 And God inside us is HAR KIRPA - that Infinite Divine Power. So only by HIS GRACE do we slip into Him and feel the love and peace.
By our efforts we only get frustrated and tired and exhausted.
12:04 Whatever you see in your dreams, always ask how it made you feel. And if it made you feel confused then that is because somewhere in you have some doubts about coming on this path. But instead of getting upset ,
12:05 see that as apositive that you have doubts to work on. To say to God-Guru ji , dear baba ji "we have jumped into the ocean of YOU, wether YOU ferry us across or drown us, its uptoY YOU, but we have jumped now and are not going back."
12:06 Then go back to your simran.
Peace of mind is another name for God.
Just by doing Sat Naam Sat Naam and being able to hear that within , with a feeling of love and peace is the greatest gift to us.
12:07 But we take that for granted and start imaging that we should be expereincing much more, seeing much more, and so on. Thats when the frustrations set in becasue we are no longer a beggar at the door, but an ungrateful wretch.
12:08 When we say to God, "thankyou for everything you have given and in your wisdom everything your haven;t given" then we find peace of mind.
Then we go back to our silent simran.
Krishan: wahe guru.. that's a great pearl
12:09 me: So everything that comes up in our simran is a good thing, because its like the driftwood of our issues coming to the surface
Krishan: it feels like that very much right now
12:10 me: and instead of floating on that doubts, or anger or whatever into the emotion of it, we step back and name it ..this is anger. We see where its coming from, forgive the source, let it drift away go back to our simran.
12:11 Keep listenign to your mind and body, when you are doing simran and feeling exhausted, just go and lie down and sleep.
Try and see this body and mind and five thieves like a raging bull inside us.
12:12 We will have great difficult trying to charge at it head on to bring it under control.
but if we become skilful like a matador we can step to the side, we can take it by the horns and work with it.
12:13 so when we are exhausted ,sick, frustrated, tired we have been charging head on i.e. using ego.
When we do ardas, we surrender, we say to guru ji we are really tired, please forgive us, we are going to go to sleep , may we still remember your name, then that is powerful and acceptable.
12:14 Also it should be enjoyable, do what makes you feel love and keeps you relaxed and makes you want to get up again tomorrow.
12:15 Krishan: thank sooo much jee.. this is really helpful..
12:16 we feel that we will develop a new feeling with ardas.. as perhaps we have skipped over this a bit
what is the satnaam audio /kirtan cds that you like to use .. we have been looking for something to playas we are going to slepe
12:17 me: will send you a link, they are on the website
Krishan: thank you, really.. we're feeling a bit better now!
12:19 but the really powerful we like is the ones recorded in baba ji's sangat - they can be a bit loud sometimes, but like this morning we really enjoyed it ...
Krishan: thank you Harjit.. really.. we feel some peace inside us now.. we prayed to god at work in the cloakroom as we felt soo many tears.. then taranjeet suggested we add you to our chat!
12:22 me: Its all good, God helps us more than we can ever imagine. Baba Ji says that actually HE is crying for HIMSELF!!!
12:23 Baba Nanak ji in gurbani says something like, "I cry, the birds onthe trees cry and the whole world cries with me."
Baba Ji said that he has heard everything cry, gold cries when it leaves the Earth, everything cries at being separated from HIM.
12:24 But most people look for worldy things or people to fill the void of separation, but really all feelings of seapration are for us to journey to HIM.
12:25 The other really powerful thing on this path is to remember it is the path of loving devtional worship. i.e. Bhagti.
12:26 So whereas the old ways were of hardship and suffering ..even doing hours of yoga and tough diets/lack of sleep etc come into this category.
The way of Bhagti is loving devotion.
12:28 Come under theg uidance of our God-Guru, then fall in love with their lotus feet, make such a strong realtionship with them, that you pray at their lotus feet, that you breath them, eat them drink them, that thoughts of them fill you with every thought. Then this path becomes easy, we talk to them we praise them in nature "o baba ji you are like the sun shinging equally on one and all and you take away our darkness so easily."
Baba ji we dont know how to do simran or bhagti, you are the kindes tof the kind, you come into our heart and do your own simran, however you want to.
12:29 Krishan: you are soo blessed to have that connection with baba ji!
it's a wonderful thing
12:31 me: it has taken years ji, to get through althe doubts and to phone baba ji and to pray for it and to take leaps of faith. Its the one relationship that will last forever, here and hereafter, so its worth nurturing it. We are so lucky to have baba ji, and anyone who loves their spiritual guide like that is so lucky, its the way to the Lord, through the blessings of His Saints.
Krishan: :)
me: Each Sant is the doorway to God's court.
12:32 Each Sant gives us the key of GurParsaadi (graced) Naam.
Krishan: we were blessed to have the darshan of baba virsa singh jee.. which we hold dear in our heart..
we wish he was still in his body.. we woudl go see him again at once
!
so now we pray to him in his non body form
12:33 me: Focus on that, mediate on that, they live forever in our heart.
Take that spark of love and expand on that every day in your simran. Thats all it is.
12:34 You only need to meet a brahmgiani once, they ignite us and the rest is upto us to nurture that and fuel it with our love and devotion.
Krishan: thanks jee we have tears even just contemplating such pure and beautiful beings
12:35 (today is a day for lots of tissues..! lol)
me: thats it, they never die, they live forever in our heart
12:36 they are actually the closest thing to God on Earth. so they are all pervading in every heart, in every living being, in every breath and every drop.
Never feel they are far away, they are closer to us then our own hands and feet
closer to us than our own face and breath
Krishan: oh that's a beautiful thought hee
jee
12:37 me: all we have to do everyday is to wander around in thoughts like these
it is called sift salah ..praises
12:38 keep praising, keep thanking ,dont compalin about anything, thanks for everything we have been given and everything we haven't.
Surrender your whole being to such a soul.
12:39 Just say baba ji we are not capable of doing anything, please come into our heart, use this mind body and soul for the highest divine good of everything and everyone.
Then when you walk, feel it is baba ji walking
when yo do simran, feel it is baba ji doing simran
when you eat feel it is baba ji eating and tasting
when you iron your clothes, feel your ar eironing baba jis clothes
12:40 when you put lotion on your feet, feel your are massaging baba ji's feet
when you look in the mirror feel like you are seeing baba ji's face
12:41 its all HIM, so then theres no more crying, no more feeling of separation
gur meray sang sada ha nalay ..guru is always with me
and then you have your own private inner realtionship
in which you laugh in love and cry in love and be silent in love
ranh vich hussay ,
12:42 rang vich hussay rang vich rovay chup kar jaai
and you dont care what other think or say
parvaah kisay na kuree
because you only know the naam of the True One
..baajh sachay naahi.
12:43 Have such a love that is saturates your whole day, and when yo sit for early hours simran you slip into such alove
aasee preeet karo munn meray
ut pahar jano prabh neray
..have such a love my mind
12:44 that you feel the Lord near day and night
Krishan: this is lovely jee.. I guess we don't yet have a consciously aware relationship with baba jee from satnaam sangat..
perhaps that will come
12:45 me: you dont need to have that with our baba ji, you already have it with your baba ji
all you need to do is to feel that it is your baba ji when you read anything that is truthful eg on the webiste
Krishan: we very much believe in baba ji's mission he was a great sant
so universal
12:46 we feel very connected to that in our heart and mind.. such a person of unity conciousness
thanks jee
me: thankyou ji,
you are doing great
keep going
12:47 As Baba ji said when we are given the Naam then God knows that we will overcome all obstacles, and jump all hurdles to be with HIM so He can hug us to his chest.
12:48 ok, anymore questions?
will try and keep the next answer shorter!!!!
Krishan: this is all wonderful jee.. thank you.. no more questions.
oh no please don't
it was perfect
me: :)
Krishan: thank you!
me: thankyou so much too.
12:49 Can we send some of this chat to the forum? Can change your name if you like and take out any personal bits.
Krishan: ofcourse you can send any / all of it.
no need to change anything
me: ok thanks, God bless you always and forever ji.
12:50 Krishan: and you dearest brother you are blessed!
me: Dhan Dhan Sukhee raho .stay in peace.
Krishan: and a blessing
me: See you soon god-willing!
Krishan: you too! yes.. and looking forward to our Reiki connection.. we are really feeling that this is a good time to start again with it.. as it has been years since we've focussed on it.
12:51 satnaam jee. and thank you.
me: satnaam jee, bye.
Krishan: bye :)
